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Hi,

I found recently, to my great happiness, I could cope with a bit of part-time driving work, but am finding extreme difficulty in getting any shifts given to me through my temp agencies. So through other sources, i.e. gig and part-time permanent or contract work, it's extremely hard to find stuff that's consistently within the earnings limits: most proper employers pay above minimum wage now. And some gig ones have funny hours/pay patterns. This is also material for a friend on PIP and ESA-LCWRA who through nominal self-employment has occasionally exceeded hours/earnings limits (under her interpretation of the rules). So:


Pension contributions and net earnings

Can pension contributions reduce employed earnings prior to the £183.50 (min wage x 16hrs) assessment being applied for ESA exempt ('permitted') work purposes, in the way it does for income tax, i.e. it reducing the pre-income-tax income by 50% of the amount contributed?


Pension contribs and gig work/self-employed net earnings

If so could pension contributions achieve a similar result in the case of nominally self-employed gig work, through ad-hoc contributions?


Pension contribs and employers refusing to operate pension schemes

Where an employer refuses to operate a pension scheme, can I reduce my nominal earnings for ESA purposes by making ad-hoc contributions?



Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and the moment at which the holiday pay is deemed to have been earned

Given for income tax purposes statutory holiday pay must (surely?) be deemed to be earned in the week in which the employee elects for it to be taken, and given some employers are entitled to pay it at the same time as the wage (as long as it’s itemized), do those latter (immediate) payments a) get treated as not immediate earnings for tax purposes and b) for ESA purposes?


Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and self-employment (as matter of statutory interpretation)

and given as a matter of policy & statutory interpretation it’s unrealistic to presume self-employed workers don’t need/won’t take holidays, can an analogous ‘holiday apportionment’ be applied to self-employed earners’ incomes, to raise the weekly £183.50 cap by the statutory holiday minimum of 12.07%, i.e. to £205.65 (so long as the earner takes 5.6 weeks’ holiday, or less on a pro-rata basis)?


Unpaid travel time between piecework jobs, and 16 hour limit

Does unpaid travel time on public transport between piecework gig (car delivery) jobs in a several-delivery day count as work hours?


Point at which the week begins for purposes of 16 hour limit

If a gig ‘employer’ (in fact they declare it’s self-employment’) only offers a minimum of 3-day tranches of work, paid by cars delivered (3-4 deliveries a day, £20-£28 a delivery, they estimate £80 income a day, although some online report as little as £40-50, they estimate taking 8-10 hours to perform), could someone in my shoes with a 16 hour limit (18 with averaging) declare my week-beginning to be after one of those 3 days, and do one 3-day tranche every two weeks instead of every one week, ergo on one ‘week’ I do 1 shift and on another ‘week’ I do two?


New PW1 form for each new work pattern?

Do I need to submit a new PW1 form for every new employer (or gigwork organizer) given each will have a slightly different work-pattern, pay, and set of duties?


Can one begin work if technically uncertain but has at least arguable case about PW1 (permitted/exempt work terms) compliance?

If I’m worried that a ‘no’ answer might be forthcoming to one of the above questions arising from a PW1 submission, but that a ‘yes’ is crucial to it falling within permitted work rules, does that mean I can/can’t begin the work but submit a PW1 immediately if I’m to keep my ESA, or is it OK to begin the work, submit PW1 immediately, and then stop it if ESA say it doesn’t fall within the rules?


I truly despair of getting any other work I can do with my current training and experience and capability level, and these questions and similar have become crucial, both for me and a friend in a similar position.

With enormous thanks - Jonathan

Many thanks for the clarification on this.

Nothing has been mentioned online for this scenario yet. Doesn’t New Style esa require enough ni contributions to qualify ?, I think legacy esa cb provides class 1 ni credits?, so no panic as in regards to not being able to receive New Style esa. (Automatically qualify?). The applicable payment for housing costs (rent) on UC would still be included?.

bm

You don't need to make multiple posts, all new posts go into a holding area until they are moved into the forum by a Moderator.

As to making late NI Contributions, have a look at the following

www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/volunt...nsion%20More%20items

www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/deadlines

Gordon

Thank you Gordon, (its not my real name shown thank you for the kind alert) just to say what I meant was I am Currently receiving IR ESA as well as Pip, I was advised that with managed migration, with no break in claim, the error of law back payment would remain disregarded capital , however when I transfer to uc is there any way paying NI missing contributions for my wife could be seen as deprivation of capital ? after all in the long run it means my wife won't have to claim benefits for not having full NI years?

Thank you

Gordon,

I'm on CB ESA (Support Group). I'm not entitled to any income-related benefit. I'm terrified reading this thread. Will I be migrated to New Style ESA this year? Will I be reassessed? Am I even entitled? I've been disabled for most of my life with very few voluntary contributions only NI Credits from SDA and past IR ESA. If PIP ceases to be a cash payment I might be without any income.

Thanks, MW

Am on contributions esa,pip ,support group ,will I be changed to another group when my award finishes, am confused on what's happening, any advice ,would be much appreciated thank you

I receive contributions based ESA. The amount I receive is reduced because I get two ill health pensions (both from the same scheme). I have been in this position since 2016. Everything ran okay until last autumn when payments were missing or days late. When I spoke to ESA they told me this was because there was too much information on my file and some needed to be archived.

My second payment in January came in at an increased amount. I phoned ESA to query this and was told it was correct. Still concerned about an overpayment I wrote a letter to them and posted it on 2 February. The amounts continued to come in too high. Then in April, this increased again due to the annual increase. I have not received my annual letter with a breakdown of the amount. I tried phoning in several times but couldn't get through. Eventually, I got through last week. I was told my letter was scanned onto the system but hadn't been actioned.

The lady on the phone told me:

It looked like only one pension had been included in the calculation.
The person doing the calculation was responsible for checking it was the same as my previous payment.
If I was underpaid before (I wasn't) I would have received backdated money.
It was a DWP error.
Someone would phone me within 72 hours to sort out the issue.

I haven't received a phone call. Should I write to them again to cover my back? I am worried after seeing the stories about carers being prosecuted for DWP errors.

Thanks for your help Gordon.

ESA would be more beneficial for me then.

Can I therefore withdraw my Universal Credit and simply stick to New Style ESA on its own?

I know that ESA is 'contribution based' - and I would meet that criteria has I have made the relevant contributions and have a full history since 1995 without any gaps.

My husband & I have always had a joint tax credit account & my contributions based ESA has always been included on the required info., but obviously I get my ESA straight from DWP into my own separate bank account.
We've now have had to fill in the universal credit application & it's really confusing!
Would I be still ne able to keep claiming my ESA instead of including it on the claim?
It seems almost as if we've had to claim for each other..
I couldn't confirm my identity bcs I surrendered
my driving licence for
medical reasons & it hasn't
been returned yet & i have
none of the others.
I had an email that they'll call me, but it says on my husband's to do list that they'll call him about it.
I'm so confused & stressed.
Sorry this is so long

VIA wrote:

If you click on my name on this forum, kindly note I am just a member of this forum and not a moderator, but I posted a few very extensive posts going into details on how you can get evidence from this online record with your GP and giving you examples of what you can see.

Jumping to object to the possible sentiment that members have less to offer than mods. That is so not true! I am sure that the experience of the body of members here is far greater than that of all the mods put together. It is possible that mods might know more bits of technical stuff, but very often there is nothing to beat practical first hand experience and we value everyone's contributions!

Thank you for your contributions to this site and our community!
Catherine

Hello

Due to transition from tax credits to universal credit on 20th May; am self employed. I am assuming DWP will look at my income , expenses, pension contributions from 20th May, monthly Does anyone know if this is correct? I receive a tax credit payment a few days beforehand. I am understanding the two to be separate.
Needing clarification of above to work out timing of money I pay into pension from earnings, minus expenses.
Also does anyone know UC amount that is relevent to get support with NHS dental treatment

Thank you for your help

Jane

Thank you Gordon. Yes I am claiming New Style Contributions Based ESA. I’m still a bit confused though! Are you saying that if I am placed in the LCWRA group my contributions based ESA will continue indefinitely ? And if not it will continue for 12 months only.
I’m assuming that getting enhanced daily living on PIP makes no difference to that LCWRA decision, I could still be considered fit for work and in order to claim any disability premium I would need to claim UC as well? If UC is means tested I definitely won’t be entitled to anything . Just wanted to say thank you for all the support and help on this site, I used your guide to apply for PIP . I was awarded it without any lengthy assessments, just a 20 minute phone call out of the blue from the DWP . Very relieved and grateful. I have never claimed anything before, the guidance on this site made the process much easier. Many thanks

M.

It sounds like they are applying the national rules for social care support in a residential setting. That allows them to take anything above the personal expenses allowance of £28.25 per week ( soon to rise to 30.15 ). The rules are different in community settings, so if he comes home during college holidays the community rules should apply.

Hi BonBon

You need to seek advice on the implications of resigning vs being made redundant, do you have a union where you work ? Your company may medically retire you, but you need to know what are your best options.

You could try ACAS to see what they have to say, and your local employment specialist.

Resigning will not affect your claim for NS ESA; There are two Contribution Conditions that you need to meet for a new claim for New Style ESA.

Both are based on the two Tax Years preceding the current Benefit year, for 2023 they are 2020-21 and 2021-22.

The Second Condition requires a minimum of 50 weeks of either NI Contributions and/or NI Credits, your current Credits Only award potentially covers this.

The First however requires a minimum of 26 weeks of NI Contributions in either of the two years.

Gary

this is the best i could find, clear as mud maybe, but it goes through it helps, all the best, i phoned them up and was told the leaflet about reporting changes was put in uprating letter by mistake, i only need to report if my condition changes my pension increases or i gain employment for example, contribution based has always meant non means tested, unless the rules changed and no one told me, leaflket went in bin,





Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) – contributory or income-related?
Background

Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was introduced on October 28th 2008 as a replacement both for Incapacity Benefit and also for Income Support for those who claimed because of sickness or disability.

Anyone already in receipt of one of the above benefits on 27/10/2008 continues to receive them until they are “migrated” to ESA (and although it is many years since this change there do still seem to be some people who have not yet been “migrated”).

ESA is awarded in two different ways: Contributory ESA and Income Related ESA.

Contributory ESA is linked to the past payment of National Insurance Contributions in the same way that Incapacity Benefit was, (except for those with limited capacity for work who claim before the age of twenty). It is income in full for DFG means-testing purposes. Contributory ESA is often referred to by the DWP these days as “new-style” ESA – this seems to be because no new claims can now be made for means-tested ESA.

Income Related ESA is a replacement for Income Support paid as a result of incapacity and is therefore a “passporting benefit” for DFG means-testing purposes.

Those conducting the means-test are often confused as to which form of ESA is being awarded by the bizarre letters sent by the DWP.

The following points may be helpful in deciding which form is in payment.

There are various hoops to jump through when claiming ESA. Any claimant enters a 11-week assessment phase where an assessment is made as to work capability. This test is similar to, but stricter than, the test formerly applied to Incapacity Benefit claimants.

Once incapacity for work has been proved a claimant is in “main phase” ESA. Anyone who has a very limited capability will go into the support group whilst those whose capability is less limited will enter the work related activity group.

Those who receive Contributory ESA and who are in the work related group can only receive ESA for a year. After that their entitlement ends.

Those who receive Contributory ESA and who are in the support group can continue to receive ESA until they reach state pension age.

Rates in payment

The basic rate of ESA is £84.80 pw. This will be the rate paid during the assessment phase.

There is an addition of £33.70 pw payable to those in the work related group. However, this was abolished for new claimants from April 2017. Only those who were in receipt of this addition at that date and who continue to satisfy the rules can receive it. However, as noted above, those in this group in receipt of contributory ESA only got ESA for one year. So if a customer receives £118.50 pw (£84.80 + £33.70) we know that this can now only be an award of income-related ESA.

There is an addition of £44.70 pw payable to those in the support group. In income-related ESA, as for DFG means-testing, receipt of this support “component” entitles the customer also to the Enhanced Disability Premium of £19.55 pw. That premium only exists within the means-tested form. It cannot be paid as part of contributory ESA.

So if a customer is in the support group and receives £129.50 pw (£84.80 + £44.70) we know that they are in receipt of contributory ESA.

It also follows that if a customer is in the support group and receives £149.05 pw (£84.80 + £44.70 + £19.55) we know that they are in receipt of income-related ESA.
Working partners

If a customer has a working partner it is almost impossible for them to be receiving income-related ESA. There is a “statute bar” preventing them receiving income-related ESA if their partner works 21 hours per week or more. In practice it is highly unlikely that anyone with a partner in “full-time work”, 16 hours per week for most benefits purposes, would receive the means-tested form, simply because their income would be too high to qualify.
Couples and single people

Contributory ESA is described as a “personal benefit”. This is the justification for not paying dependant’s increases in respect of a partner, which was possible under Incapacity Benefit. Conversely, those claiming income-related ESA can be paid it as a couple. The personal allowance for a couple is £133.30 pw. Any award letter that refers to a couple rate of £133.30 pw actually being in payment to the couple therefore can relate only to an award of income-related ESA.
Disabled young people

Following the introduction of ESA in 2008 disabled young people, in receipt of DLA or PIP, could claim contributory ESA from the age of 16 albeit that they had not met the contribution conditions. They would need to provide a medical certificate from their GP. They could receive ESA even if they were in full-time education. This continued a similar rule which had applied to Incapacity Benefit.

This provision was ended in May 2012. However, young people in this group can still claim Universal Credit in these situations (provided they receive any element of DLA or PIP and can provide a medical certificate). Receipt of UC in this situation excludes receipt of Child Benefit.

So someone in this situation may be passported to a full grant if they are a qualifying young person as their parents receive Child Benefit for them.

Alternatively, if they are receiving UC they will be passported to a full grant as they are in receipt of a passporting benefit.

It is the same end result, in neither case will there be a means-test or any assessed contribution, but for paperwork purposes it may be important to be clear as to which category the young person falls into.
Effect on premiums

The effect on premiums within the DFG calculation is as follows:

Being in “main phase” cESA entitles the customer to a disability premium.

Being in the support group for cESA also entitles the customer to an enhanced disability premium.

Rates

It is therefore possible, in some but not all cases, to determine whether we are dealing with the contributory or means-tested forms of ESA simply from the amount in payment:

2023-2024 Rates used

Amount payable Situation Contributory or
means-tested?
£149.05* Single person in support group with enhanced disability premium Means-tested
£118.50 Single person in work-related group for more than a year Means-tested
£133.30
(the couple rate) Couple rate is part of the assessment Means-tested
£129.50 Single person in support group Contributory
£225.45** Single person in support group with enhanced disability premium and severe disability premium Means-tested
* This could all be means-tested ESA or it could be £129.50 contributory ESA “topped up” by the enhanced disability premium of £19.55. In either case the customer is receiving means-tested ESA.

** This could all be means-tested ESA or it could be £129.50 contributory ESA "topped up" by the enhanced disability premium of £19.55 and the severe disability premium of £76.40. In either case the customer is receiving means-tested ESA.

Hello

I have been receiving contributions-based ESA since November 2023.

I have just been informed that I have been placed in the Support Group, following a work capability assessment.

I understand the CB ESA is not means tested, however I have received confusing information from the DWP: one letter saying that my CB ESA would end after 365 days (this is before I was placed in the support group). Another is a leaflet sent with my Support Group decision letter saying that I have to tell them if my circumstances change, including if my savings go above £6,000.

I know that CB ESA is not means tested, but is this *definitely* the case after 365 days? I can’t find any official info online confirming this. Does anyone have the relevant official info / a link I could look at?

Many thanks indeed.

Hi,

I have had a letter out of the blue saying they can no longer pay me esa , saying the same not enough NI contributions , saying based on years the same as yours , odd thing is been getting esa over 8 years and nothing in the letter to say about another benefit I could go to. Did you sort yours out ?

Thanks
Sean

Hi Labrador

As you are in the support group when you apply for UC you should be placed in the LCWRA group, sometimes a workcoach states that you need to provide a fit note, this is not correct.

Nearly all applications are made online, although there are exceptions such as telephone applications and home visits, if in doubt, contact the UC helpline 0800 328 5644

When you apply for UC, you usually have to make an appointment to see a workcoach and sign a claimant commitment, signing the claimant commitment starts your UC claim.

he conditions for claiming Universal Credit are set out in a "claimant commitment" that most people will have to accept at the beginning of their claim. If you are part of a couple, you will each have a separate claimant commitment that may be different from each other's.

People who may not need to accept a commitment include those who lack capacity, those who have exceptional circumstances  where it would be unreasonable to expect them to agree a commitment (this is decided by the work coach on a case by case basis), or, From 15 February 2022 people with a terminal illness and less than 6 months to live were also excluded, and from 4 April 2023 this was extended to 12 months.

There are 4 conditionality groups:

* Group 1. No work related requirements
* Group 2. Work-focused interview requirement
* Group 3. Work preparation requirement
* Group 4. All work-related requirements

www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Claimant-commitment-Universal-Credit

Gary

L

If you are receiving legacy ESA, which I doubt from your claim date, then you need to contact the DWP and ask for an ESA3 form to be sent which will capture the information needed for the IR component to be paid.

If, as I suspect, you are actually receiving New Style ESA, then there is no Income Related component.

You can claim Universal Credit, your existing ESA award will be included in your UC claim but the NS ESA will be deducted.

As to informing the DWP of a Change of Circumstances, you are already receiving the highest rate of ESA and/or UC for disability or illness.

You do need to inform them of the address change.

All that will happen is that you will have to go through a re-assessment process, which at the moment you may wish to avoid, especially if you are also claiming PIP.

Gordon